[JW Lua] Embed a JSON interpreter (cjson? dkjson?)

Thu Mar 23 15:06:47 CET 2023

Okay, I see your point.

Aaron.

On Thu, Mar 23, 2023 at 10:00 AM Robert Patterson <
robert at robertgpatterson.com> wrote:

> The world of Lua scripts for Finale is much wider than the lua-scripts
> repository in the finale-lua organization at github. They range from ad hoc
> to proprietary, and I'm thinking built-in json support might be of value to
> them. I am currently trying to see if I can contact someone at Exasol to
> see why they decided to add cjson to their embedded Lua.
>
>  I agree that there will be no effort to include mixins in RGP Lua.
>
> A better example is the transposition library. I have frequently felt that
> proper transposition should be built into the PDK Framework. It's on my
> task list to consider.
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 23, 2023 at 8:50 AM Aaron Sherber <aaron at sherber.com> wrote:
>
>> I guess I would say that I don't see a good reason for changing the
>> current setup.
>>
>> There's a larger question about where to draw the line between RGP Lua,
>> user scripts, and the includes that are currently in the repo. For
>> instance, there are more user scripts that use mixins than ones that use
>> json, but I don't think we're considering including mixins in RGP Lua.
>>
>> If the json library is included with RGP Lua, then user scripts that use
>> json will also have to decide whether to specify a minimum version of RGP
>> Lua or include a fallback to lunajson (in which case I think there's no
>> advantage to the embedded encoder, since lunajson would still need to be
>> bundled with the script).
>>
>> Keep in mind also that my "Document Options as JSON" script has a
>> particular need to emit formatted JSON in alphabetical order, which is why
>> I rolled my own encoder. So from a personal perspective, an embedded json
>> library would only have value to me if it included both of those bits of
>> functionality.
>>
>> Aaron.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Mar 23, 2023 at 9:27 AM Robert Patterson <
>> robert at robertgpatterson.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I'd say the biggest practical advantage of embedding it is that it
>>> removes friction from using it and facilitates platform independence. I'm
>>> guessing that's why Exasol embedded it as well. It was the same motivation
>>> as for Luasocket. Plus it is possible that speed matters more in a database
>>> engine.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Mar 23, 2023 at 7:54 AM Aaron Sherber <aaron at sherber.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I find speed comparisons not highly relevant in situations like this,
>>>> because we're talking about at most a handful of operations at a time. For
>>>> example, look at the speed comparisons at the bottom of the page here:
>>>> http://lua-users.org/wiki/JsonModules  Speeds range from 0.5 sec to
>>>> 122 sec -- for 100000 iterations. That means even the slowest time was just
>>>> over 1 millisec per iteration. Make it an order of magnitude or two slower,
>>>> and a human being can't tell the difference.
>>>>
>>>> I'm not saying I'd be opposed to embedding a JSON encoder -- I'm just
>>>> trying to understand what the practical advantages might be.
>>>>
>>>> I'm also curious: How do you see Finale interacting with web services?
>>>>
>>>> Aaron.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Mar 22, 2023 at 11:26 PM Robert Patterson <
>>>> robert at robertgpatterson.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> There are two main reasons for CJSON in particular. One leads to the
>>>>> other:
>>>>>
>>>>> 1. CJSON is a pure C implementation, which means it is more than an
>>>>> order of magnitude faster than dkjson
>>>>> <https://kyne.com.au/~mark/software/lua-json-performance.html>.
>>>>> 2. Once we are talking about a C implementation, the dependencies
>>>>> start to magnify. I embedded Luasocket and Luaosutils for the same reason.
>>>>> Embedding means there is no extra cruft outside your script, and the same
>>>>> script is usable on either platform.
>>>>>
>>>>> I see JSON as potentially becoming more important to Finale Lua since
>>>>> I have added https post to luaosutils. (It's already available in the
>>>>> experimental version of RGP Lua I released, called internet.post.) If
>>>>> we start integrating Finale with web services, which is a capability I have
>>>>> in mind, JSON is likely to be a critical component of it.
>>>>>
>>>>> BTW: I desperately wanted to use Luasocket for http, but for https it
>>>>> requires LuaSec, and LuaSec has exploding dependencies. By contrast,
>>>>> Luaosutils is lightweight and uses os-level services on Mac and Win to
>>>>> send/receive data.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Mar 22, 2023 at 7:28 PM Aaron Sherber <aaron at sherber.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> What would be the advantages of embedding it with Lua as opposed to
>>>>>> the current method of requiring it (from src/lunajson) when it's needed?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Aaron.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 22, 2023 at 8:05 PM Robert Patterson <
>>>>>> robert at robertgpatterson.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I just discovered that the Exasol database engine has an embedded
>>>>>>> Lua interpreter similar to ours. I found a series of blog posts about their
>>>>>>> efforts to upgrade from Lua 5.1 to Lua 5.4 (written last November.)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Like us, they embed LuaSocket. Another thing they do is embed cjson.
>>>>>>> Is that something we should think about doing for our embedded Lua? I
>>>>>>> already know of three Finale Lua scripts that use a json formatter, and
>>>>>>> there will probably be more.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Robert
>>>>>>>
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